IRC log for 7 January 2003 SPI general meeting

From: Branden Robinson / SPI Treasurer <branden+spi-treasurer(at)deadbeast(dot)net>
To: spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org
Cc: spi-board(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org
Subject: IRC log for 7 January 2003 SPI general meeting
Date: 2003-01-07 21:39:47
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Lists: spi-general

*** Starting logfile /home/branden/misc/etc/spi-meeting.2003.01.07
IRC log started Tue Jan 07 15:02:19 2003
*** Value of LOG set to ON
<Overfiend> 03:02PM|*** Starting logfile
<Overfiend> 03:02PM|*** Value of LOG set to ON
<weasel> ok
<EanSchuessler> An actual board meeting.
<wiggy> EanSchuessler: take here away!
<wiggy> shall we use the same method as last time?
*#* Mode change +m on channel #spi by wiggy
<EanSchuessler> I hereby call this official and operational SPI meeting
to order!
<Overfiend> do I have a voice?
*#* wiggy has changed the topic on #spi to agenda is at
*#* Users on #spi:
*#* @Diziet @EanSchuessler @Manoj @Overfiend @Schuessi
@wiggy azeem bdale brother cdlu
Clint CosmicRay dieman
*#* ElectricElf gcc- Hydroxide ibid ja
lan migus mihtjel Noodles pj0tr
tbm tina tytso
*#* weasel yp17
*#* wiggy has changed the topic on #spi to agenda is at ; msg EanSchuessler if you
want to say something so he can hand out voices as needed
<wiggy> Tue Jan 7 21:03:26 CET 2003
<EanSchuessler> Errr... Unfortunately I'm not to up to date on voicing
people so maybe we can just maintain order naturally.
<wiggy> /mode #spi +v <nick>
<Overfiend> /mode +v non-moderator-nickname
<wiggy> to give voice
<Overfiend> oh, whoops, yeah, listen to wiggy
<wiggy> and -v to take it away
<EanSchuessler> Ah. Well, thats easy enough.
* EanSchuessler loads up latest agenda.
<EanSchuessler> - Roll call.
<Manoj> present
<EanSchuessler> Actually, let's type our names for convenience in
the record.
<EanSchuessler> Ean Schuessler present.
<Overfiend> PRESIDENT, huh-m-huh, huh
<Overfiend> Branden Robinson present.
<Manoj> Manoj Srivastava, present
<Diziet> Ian Jackson, present
<wiggy> Wichert Akkerman, present
*#* Mode change -m on channel #spi by wiggy
<wiggy> can everyone do that please?
*#* _rene_ (~rene(at)stan(dot)ping(dot)de) has joined channel #debian-devel
*#* _rene_ (~rene(at)stan(dot)ping(dot)de) has joined channel #spi
<Clint> Clint Adams, present
<Overfiend> wiggy: what does that do?
<CosmicRay> John Goerzen, present
<weasel> Peter Palfrader, present
<cdlu> David Graham, present
<ibid> Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho, present
<ElectricElf> David B. Harris, present.
<azeem> Michael Banck, present
<wiggy> Overfiend: remove moderation so everyone can talk
<migus> Pierre Machard, present
*?* Channel -m does not exist.
<yp17> Bill Allombert, present
<bdale> Bdale Garbee, advisor from Debian and contributing member
<dieman> Scott Dier, present.
<mihtjel> Rune Broberg, present (at times)
<brother> Peter Makholm, present
<tbm> Martin Michlmayr, advisor, present
<Overfiend> wiggy: I tried, got no client feedback at all.
<_rene_> Rene Engelhard, cont. memb., present
-ElectricElf- Did you forget the #spi in "/mode #spi -m"?
<wiggy> is that everyone?
<bdale> Overfiend: must have worked, my first try was blocked and second
got through
<EanSchuessler> For anyone who missed what we are doing, we are calling
<EanSchuessler> Please type your full name.
<EanSchuessler> This includes contributing members and even just plain
<tina> Tina Gasperson, just plain visitor
<EanSchuessler> Are we all done then?
<EanSchuessler> All right. Let's move on.
*#* Mode change +m on channel #spi by wiggy
<EanSchuessler> *** Approving minutes of last meeting
<EanSchuessler> I'm a touch confused. Are these the December 17th minutes?
<wiggy> they were already approved
*#* dtype (~dtype(at)dtype(dot)org) has joined channel #spi
<EanSchuessler> Ok, that's what I thought.
*#* Mode change +o dtype on channel #spi by wiggy
<dtype> stupid bitchx reset itself at some point and hopped back to
default server
<EanSchuessler> aha.
<EanSchuessler> So, December 17th minutes are already approved. Any
<EanSchuessler> No? Ok, let's move on.
*#* dtype is now known as DrewStreib
<EanSchuessler> *** Report from the treasurer
<Overfiend> Okay, that's me.
<Overfiend> 18 Ns Jan 07 Branden Robinso ( 145) [Spi-private] Treasurer
report for 7 January 2003
<Overfiend> 19 Ns Jan 07 Branden Robinso ( 145) Treasurer report for
7 January 2003
<Overfiend> it has been sent to spi-private, since it contains account
balances and stuff
<Diziet> I move we thank Branden and accept his report.
<Overfiend> I welcome followup questions, though I realize few will have
had time to read it.
* EanSchuessler looks it over.
<Overfiend> since I sent it about 5 minutes before the meeting was
<Diziet> I don't have any questions. Also, we should thank Branden for
his hard work.
<Diziet> I think we can probably leave the questions for the next
meeting, or just email ? No need to wait about while everyone reads
it thoroughly.
<Overfiend> do we have any from the contributing members?
<wiggy> Overfiend: wrt to account ownership, how about transfering that
to you?
<Overfiend> Diziet: I agree
<Overfiend> wiggy: I'm already an "owner" of all 3 accounts
<EanSchuessler> Diziet: definately.
<Overfiend> you can have more than one person with "signing authority"
or whatever.
<Overfiend> The question is whether we drop Nils now, or later.
<wiggy> Overfiend: ok, in that case we should have nils removed imho
<EanSchuessler> Overfiend: thanks for the continued hard work on a less
than appealing task.
<Overfiend> Ean: yeah, at least you guys don't get paper cuts :)
<Diziet> I don't care about Nils - he's not going to defraud us.
But I'll take Branden's call.
<EanSchuessler> ORDER
* Overfiend snaps to attention
<EanSchuessler> Not to be rude, but I can see that Branden's report is
cause for a spectrum of discussions.
<EanSchuessler> Let's take those up on the list.
<Overfiend> Ean: can I add something?
<EanSchuessler> absolutely
<Overfiend> Since I realize folks didn't have a fair chance to review
the report before the meeting started, I welcome questions to be
submitted to spi-private in reply to that mail.
<Overfiend> I will attempt to answer them in my next report.
<EanSchuessler> Super.
<Overfiend> likely in immediate reply as well
<EanSchuessler> Are there any questions specific to the contents of
Branden's current report.
<EanSchuessler> Corrections, etc.
<EanSchuessler> ?
<EanSchuessler> Great. Then let's vote on Ian's proposal to accept
the minutes.
* Overfiend yields the floor.
<EanSchuessler> Oops. Hold a sec.
*#* weaselTM (~weasel(at)129(dot)187(dot)19(dot)21) has joined channel #debian-devel
<DrewStreib> question, i'm late, but not sure if officially _here_
(as wasn't at beginning of meeting). I'm still OK to vote, correct?
<wiggy> DrewStreib: yes, you're here now
<EanSchuessler> DrewStreib: yes. you're here.
*#* Signoff: weaselTM (Client Quit)
*#* Users on #spi:
*#* @Diziet @DrewStreib @EanSchuessler @Manoj @Overfiend
@Schuessi @wiggy azeem bdale brother
cdlu Clint CosmicRay
*#* dieman ElectricElf gcc- Hydroxide ibid
ja lan migus mihtjel Noodles
pj0tr tbm tina
*#* tytso weasel yp17 _rene_
<EanSchuessler> Bdale has a comment on the treasurer's report.
<Overfiend> bdale: yes?
<EanSchuessler> Hrmph. I'm doing something wrong..
*#* Mode change +v bdale on channel #spi by wiggy
<bdale> wiggy: thanks
* EanSchuessler mumbles.
<bdale> Overfiend: I wonder if you have a split of balance showing
Debian's assets right now?
<Overfiend> bdale: in short, no
<bdale> Overfiend: ok, thanks, next time.
<Overfiend> well
<bdale> EanSchuessler: thanks
<Overfiend> I need to elaborate.
<Overfiend> because I cannot come up with an answer in any timeframe
without some premises decided.
<bdale> Overfiend: "no" is sufficient for now, no need to hold up the mtg
<Overfiend> well, I'll keep it to one sentence.
<Overfiend> SPI has never, to my knowledge, officially adopted a policy
of how to divide up the cash in the AXP Cash Management account where
almost all of the money is. Previous Treasurers did not leave good
enough records for me to know how much is Debian-specific and how
much is SPI's.
<Overfiend> sorry, that is 2 sentences
<Overfiend> Previous minutes discuss a "5%" rule, and I recommend that
interested parties review old minutes for this discussion.
<Overfiend> That is all.
<EanSchuessler> Hmmmm.
<Overfiend> bdale: your input on this matter is, IMO, essential.
* bdale suggests the board discuss this and determine an answer before
the next meeting?
<EanSchuessler> MINUTES: Make sure to add a note requiring discussion of
Debian's finances on the list. Also discuss establishing a Treasurer's
committee with it's own list.
* bdale will be happy to participate in said discussion, but thinks it
too much to tackle right now in this meeting
* EanSchuessler agrees.
<Overfiend> bdale: I agree. Hopefully we can work something out.
<bdale> we'll work something out.
<EanSchuessler> Any other comments on the treasurer's report?
*#* Mode change -v bdale on channel #spi by wiggy
<EanSchuessler> No?
* wiggy presses next
<EanSchuessler> Very well. I repeat Ian's motion that we accept the
* Overfiend abstains.
* EanSchuessler votes YES
<Diziet> I vote in favour, clearly.
<wiggy> lets wait for the actual call for votes :)
* DrewStreib waits.
* wiggy votes in favour
* Overfiend abstains early, and abstains often.
* DrewStreib votes in favor.
<wiggy> can we assume manoj dropped of the net?
* EanSchuessler nudges manoj
<Overfiend> with Drew here, we're still at quorum, right?
<wiggy> Overfiend: yes
<EanSchuessler> i believe so, yes.
<Overfiend> mark Manoj as abstaining and move on then, IMO
* EanSchuessler wacks Manoj.
<EanSchuessler> Ok, Manoj abstains by virtue of absence.
<EanSchuessler> 4 for and 2 abstain?
<EanSchuessler> Mr Secretary?
*#* Signoff: Manoj (Read error: Connection timed out)
<EanSchuessler> Ah.
<wiggy> motion accepted I would say
<EanSchuessler> The treasurer's report is accepted.
<EanSchuessler> Next.
<Overfiend> the secretary can record the votes from the IRC logs when
he preps the minutes, I do not think it is necessary to hold up the
proceeding unless there is evident confusion
<Overfiend> nevermind :)
<EanSchuessler> Oh joy.
<EanSchuessler> *** New board members
<wiggy> can I introduce this one?
<EanSchuessler> Please do./
<wiggy> I would like to ask people to read
<EanSchuessler> wiggy: do you want to copy some of the key elements into
the IRC log?
<wiggy> wait, no, sorry, wrong resolution
<Overfiend> uh
<Overfiend> that's the bylaws one
<EanSchuessler> oh...
<EanSchuessler> Yipe.
<Overfiend> let's not spill blood before we have to >;-)
* EanSchuessler stops pretending to know which proposal is which by date.
<wiggy> is the correct one
<wiggy> sorry about that
<Diziet> Have you mailed that out ? If not please do so.
<wiggy> Diziet: yes, yesterday
<wiggy> to both the board and spi-general
* Diziet finds it.
<Overfiend> [inappropriate remark] sauce probably shitcanned it :-P
<Overfiend> whoops
<wiggy> as discussed in the previous meeting we want add members to the
spi board
*#* thom (~thom(at)dev(dot)bitch-whore(dot)com) has joined channel #debian-devel
<DrewStreib> I assume the board can choose any way to elect new members
at the moment? (independent of bylaw changes to happen later?)
<wiggy> this resolution explains the method we would like to use to
implement that
<wiggy> DrewStreib: yes
<Overfiend> Drew: we can certainly elect new members in accordance with
the existing bylaws
<Diziet> Damn, I should have replied to that motion saying the time
periods are too short.
<wiggy> Diziet: you can do so now
<Overfiend> IMO they're plenty
<Diziet> Doubling them would help.
<wiggy> we already have a set of candidates
<Overfiend> modulus typographical fixes I'm happy to second the proposed
resolution as-is
<Diziet> You miss out if you're on holiday for a week ?
<wiggy> so I don't see why doubling the first period would help
<Overfiend> Diziet: only when it's a week in Diziet time :-P
<Overfiend> Diziet: please subscribe to spi-general and read the archives
since December 1st
<Overfiend> we have no shortage of candidates
<Overfiend> qualified ones, even
<Diziet> But if they happen to be away when we send out the call,
they'll miss out.
* EanSchuessler is reading in several places at once.
<wiggy> the current list of candidates is: Bruce Perens, Clint Adams,
Craig Small, David Graham, Jimmy Kaplowitz, Mako Hill, Rik van Riel
<Overfiend> Diziet: oh well.
<Diziet> You're saying this 7 days has already started then ?
<Overfiend> Diziet: same is true if it's a month, or a year.
<Overfiend> Diziet: no
<wiggy> Diziet: no
<Diziet> Yes, but people are less likely to be away for 14 days than 7.
<Overfiend> Diziet: *cough&
<wiggy> we'll be seeding the list with people who volunteered earlier
<Diziet> Then we don't have any `official' candidates nominated according
to this process yet.
<Diziet> Your motion doesn't say that.
<wiggy> and add seven extra days for more volunteers
<Overfiend> wiggy: technically we'll have to re-solicit self-nominations,
Diziet is right about that
<EanSchuessler> ORDER
<Overfiend> however, I
<EanSchuessler> Dieman has requested the floor.
*#* Mode change +v dieman on channel #spi by wiggy
<dieman> Hi, I'm Scott Dier, in case anyone missed the begenning.
* DrewStreib looks away.
<dieman> Is there a reason a previous suggestion to have short position
papers on the spi website wasn't included in this resolution?
<Diziet> I think the resolution needs more work :-(.
<dieman> </end>
<Diziet> (sorry)
<wiggy> it is a technicality which I didn't feel was required
<EanSchuessler> Thanks Scott.
<EanSchuessler> Ok, so we have two points...
<Overfiend> I disagree with Diziet, and agree with what I think Wichert
is saying.
<EanSchuessler> The timeframe should be extended and position papers
should be posted publicly from the candidates.
<Overfiend> the burden is on the candidate to prove his mettle by
proactively posting a bio and/or discussion of issues germane to SPI
<EanSchuessler> I don't see either of those requests as show stoppers.
<Overfiend> EanSchuessler: me neither, I just don't think they're
<EanSchuessler> Overfiend: we can certainly post positions if they
are provided.
<wiggy> how about:
<wiggy> * over a period of one week (7 days) candiates can nominate
<wiggy> Any submitted position papers and bios of the candidates will be
<wiggy> published on the SPI website.
<Diziet> We must also say who organises, makes random administrative
decisions, acts as returning officer, etc.
* Overfiend seconds that
<Overfiend> not what Diziet said
<Overfiend> Diziet: "returning officer"?
<Overfiend> oh, the person who tabulates the ballots
<Overfiend> right?
<wiggy> Diziet: this falls on the tasks of the secretary as I see it
<wiggy> We can extend the first period to two weeks to ask candidates
to officially re-volunteer, I have no objection to that
<Diziet> The motion should say so. How about: The Secretary shall act
as returning officer, issue calls for nominations, tabulate votes, etc.
<Overfiend> So add a clause that says the SPI Secretary shall serve as
election manager
<Overfiend> yeah, what Diziet said
* Overfiend seconds that, too
<wiggy> --The Secretary shall act as returning officer, issue calls
for nominations,
<wiggy> and tabulate votes. Voting will done using the Condorcet
method with
<wiggy> Cloneproof/Schwartz Sequential Dropping.
<Diziet> wiggy: You accept my proposed amendment, then. Good.
<Overfiend> wiggy: sloppy wording but I can pick over that later if
need be
<Overfiend> not important for this meeting
<wiggy> I have updated the text online
<Diziet> And change nomination period to 14 days.
<EanSchuessler> Let's keep in mind that this is neither a re-election
of board officers nor are we establishing a permanent method for
handling board elections.
<Diziet> ean: True.
<EanSchuessler> This is a one time event designed to reconstitute
the board.
<wiggy> Diziet: any objections to voting for the resolution as it is
currently drafted?
<EanSchuessler> More permanent arrangements could be made in a by-laws
committee if one existed. :)
<Overfiend> wiggy: point of order
<EanSchuessler> wiggy: let's look back at the two requests.
<Overfiend> let's vote specifically on Diziet's 14 day amendment
<EanSchuessler> Let's get the position statements in there too.
<wiggy> ok
<wiggy> consensus vote?
<Overfiend> Ean: that was not objected to
* wiggy abstains
<EanSchuessler> wiggy: to be clear, what are we voting on?
<Overfiend> Ean: technically it can be rammed in by acclamation
<Overfiend> (sp?)
<wiggy> abs: extending the period of the nomination phase to two weeks
<wiggy> s/abs/ean/
<Overfiend> Ean: I suggest you call for votes on Diziet's amendment to
extend the nomination period to 14 days.
<DrewStreib> since this resolution isn't yet voted on, do we need to
vote on ammendments to it?
<Overfiend> Drew: yes
<Diziet> wiggy: do you accept the amendment to 14 days ?
<Diziet> Does anyone object to it ?
<Overfiend> Drew: _Robert's_ says you vote on amendments before the
resolution itself
<EanSchuessler> ORDER
<wiggy> Diziet: I would like to go with the board majority, I don't
particularly care either way
<Overfiend> Drew: that way you know what you're passing
*#* robster (~rob(at)hades(dot)robster(dot)org(dot)uk) has joined channel #spi
*#* robster (~rob(at)hades(dot)robster(dot)org(dot)uk) has joined channel #debian-devel
* ibid finds spi's meeting technique overly vote-happy (around here in
Finland, only contested points are customarily voted upon)
<Diziet> ov: Yes, indeed, but we don't need to vote if no-one objects.
<ibid> it could be a culture thing
<Diziet> (Assuming I have a second.)
<ElectricElf> ibid: I believe it is, yes.
<EanSchuessler> VOTE: Amend diziet's proposal to include the 14 day
nomination period.
<mihtjel> they haven't voted in a long time ;)
<Diziet> I vote in favour, obviously.
* Overfiend votes NO
<robster> hehe
<ElectricElf> ibid: (I also find it somewhat irritating. People can work
via consensus, and it's often much faster.)
<ibid> mihtjel: they have voted at least twice in this hour
<robster> lo elf + mihtjel
* DrewStreib votes in favor.
<EanSchuessler> VOTE: Amend wichert's proposal to include Ian's 14 day
nomination period.
<EanSchuessler> Sorry.
<mihtjel> hello robster
<Overfiend> GRRRRRR
<weasel> here people usually vote to have another beer at such meetings :)
* EanSchuessler votes in favor.
<mihtjel> ibid: I mean, before this meeting
* Overfiend votes to smack Ean for confusing things
* wiggy abstains
<mihtjel> weasel: argh
<ibid> mihtjel: i talked about the meeting
<wiggy> majority is in favour though
<EanSchuessler> sorry.
* wiggy edits
* Overfiend still votes no
<Overfiend> but it carries
<DrewStreib> 2 weeks isn't really too long for something this important.
<wiggy> text updated
<ibid> around here, it takes at least four people having two different
opinions until a vote is conducted
<wiggy> with 4 weeks we'll have the new board members just in time for
the next meeting
<mihtjel> ibid: Yes, but they haven't had any chance to vote before this
meeting, then ;-P
<ibid> (if there is only one seconded motion, it passes without vote)
<Overfiend> DrewStreib: no, I'll vote for it either way. I just think we
de facto used most of last month as a nominating and discussion period.
<Overfiend> DrewStreib: on -general
<mihtjel> we try to reach a consensus instead.. which is usually
"more beer"
<Clint> the irc format doesn't seem particularly conducive to efficiency
<EanSchuessler> Overfiend: new board members is a big deal. let's not
rush it.
<wiggy> EanSchuessler: can you please call for votes on the resolution
as it stands now?
<EanSchuessler> wiggy: what about position statements as per Scott's
<DrewStreib> is there a current list of members which is very up to date,
and which will have voting privileges?
<Overfiend> EanSchuessler: that was already accepted by acclamation
<wiggy> EanSchuessler: already merged
<EanSchuessler> ok.
<EanSchuessler> cdlu has some comments.
<wiggy> DrewStreib: yes, the system
<Overfiend> 03:35PM|<wiggy> how about:
<Overfiend> 03:35PM|<wiggy> * over a period of one week (7 days) candiates
can nominate themselves,
<Overfiend> 03:35PM|<wiggy> Any submitted position papers and bios of
the candidates will be
<Overfiend> 03:35PM|<wiggy> published on the SPI website.
<Overfiend> 03:35PM|<Diziet> We must also say who organises, makes random
administrative decisions, acts as returning officer, etc.
<Overfiend> 03:35PM|* Overfiend seconds that
*#* Mode change +v cdlu on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<ibid> you get the prepared motion, it is seconded, then you get a
conflicting motion, which is also seconded. only then do we enter
a vote
<cdlu> Ok, I'd just like to say I think the extra week is ... more time
<cdlu> Joey put out a call for nominations in November
<cdlu> there have already been several weeks.
<cdlu> Thanks
<cdlu> </cdlu>
*#* Mode change -v cdlu on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<wiggy> the issue is official nominations
<EanSchuessler> Again, I'd just like to put things in perspective.
<wiggy> nominations made previously are not valid in this process
<EanSchuessler> We have a board that is apparently operational for the
time being.
<DrewStreib> Either way, this puts things in time for the next meeting.
<Diziet> We've voted, can we move on to the whole resolution as amended ?
<wiggy> I will mail the previous nomimations to invite them to re-nominate
<Overfiend> Yeah, cdlu and I are clearly in the minority, let's move on.
<Overfiend> let's vote on the whole resolution
<DrewStreib> before the vote, could I see a pointer the the current
membership list?
<EanSchuessler> We're adding board members, which is serious, and I
would like to see us not do it in the Cabal(tm) style.
<Overfiend> modulo typo fixups
<wiggy> DrewStreib: yes, the system
<ibid> vote vote vote vote, what a happy family we are :-)
<Overfiend> DrewStreib: contributing members, all members, just the
Board, what?
<ibid> (that was bad poetry, if you didn't recognize it as such)
<Diziet> Do I have to have an account in this thing to see the membership
list ?
<DrewStreib> whoever will have voting power for the new board members
<Overfiend> Diziet: you should already have one
<wiggy> Diziet: you might have read access to the psql database
<wiggy> but please keep these technicalaties for later
<Overfiend> Drew: AIUI, all contributing members have a vote.
That includes the entire Board by definition.
<EanSchuessler> ORDER
<EanSchuessler> Let's get a vote here.
<Overfiend> EanSchuessler: well, Drew wanted us to shelve that until he
found out who has a vote.
<Diziet> Point of order
<Diziet> What ov said
<DrewStreib> I'm fine now. My question is answered.
<Overfiend> okay
<Diziet> OK
<EanSchuessler> VOTE: Accept Wichert's board nomination and election
procedure with the time frame modification.
<Diziet> Yes
* Overfiend votes YES
* EanSchuessler votes in favor.
<DrewStreib> although I'd like a more public posting of membership at
some point if we could.
* wiggy votes in favour
* DrewStreib votes in favor.
<EanSchuessler> DrewStreib: noted.
<Overfiend> Drew: might want to mail tbm about it
<Overfiend> Martin Michlmayr
<Overfiend> he's still chair of the membership committee and implemented
most of the tech
<EanSchuessler> The motion passes.
<EanSchuessler> Next.
<EanSchuessler> *** Resolution 2002-12-17.wta.1: Charter for the bylaws
<wiggy> can I introduce this one again?
<EanSchuessler> Please do.
<Overfiend> eh?
<wiggy> right
<Overfiend> isn't that version more recent?
<Overfiend> okay
<EanSchuessler> Oh... sorry. working from the agenda.
*#* Signoff: maxx (Quit: n8)
<wiggy> this is the result from the discussion at the last meeting and
further discussions within the board and on spi-general
<DrewStreib> wiggy: I like that resolution, but might want to request
an addition of a review of the guidelines for membership, since if
we are giving membership more power, we want to be clear on what
constitutes membership, and how it is gained.
<DrewStreib> or something like that in correct english
<wiggy> DrewStreib: we can suggest that to the ctte
<DrewStreib> the 'guidelines' on are pretty shaky at best
<wiggy> once it exists
<Overfiend> WTF
<Overfiend> wiggy: neither ean nor I can voice people, the ops are
fucked up
<wiggy> hm?
<wiggy> who do you want to voice?
<Overfiend> please voice dieman
<dieman> devoice.
<Overfiend> oh
*#* Mode change -v dieman on channel #spi by wiggy
*#* egagnon (~egagnon(at)66(dot)199(dot)144(dot)22) has joined channel #debian-devel
* Overfiend slinks off in stupidity
* wiggy gives overfiend a cluecookie
<Diziet> OK, how about we insert new iii. Review and clarification of
the guidelines for granting contributing membership.
<ibid> egagnon: hi
<Diziet> (and renumber iii to iv)
<DrewStreib> i'd like that
<egagnon> ibid: hi!
<wiggy> so done
<EanSchuessler> Ok, we have a comment from Bdale.
*#* Mode change +v bdale on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
* ibid has been handing out packages, but not sablecc, i've saved that
for you :-)
<Overfiend> I'm in favor of that as long as it isn't bolted to "don't
you touch the quorum rules" amendment
* thom needs to go on an orphaning spree
* bdale reminds the board that months ago there was discussion leading
to recollection that all Debian developers were de facto contributing
members, but no action has been taken yet to programmatically give
them that status in the db as far as I know.
<Diziet> ov: I withdraw the thing about the quorum rules.
<Overfiend> Diziet: oh, okay.
<EanSchuessler> ORDER
<DrewStreib> bdale: that is but one of many things about membership I
think it would be great to clear up.
<egagnon> ibid: thanks! I've applied to become a debian developer.
You can check the status at .
* bdale thinks it's crystal clear
<EanSchuessler> Wooo.
<Overfiend> bdale: well, hang on a second
<bdale> it's just that no action was taken in response to the board's
<wiggy> bdale: we can grab the account database and merge
that into the spi members system
<Overfiend> there may be Debian members who choose NOT to be SPI
contributing members
<EanSchuessler> Err, from what I recall this is a kettle of fish with
the Debian members.
<EanSchuessler> Right.
<bdale> Overfiend: that was part of the previous discussion, review it
<wiggy> but that was the reason we did not do that
<Overfiend> bdale: IIRC, we didn't want to auto-sub Debian developers
to mailing lists, etc.
<bdale> no, we had a solution involving waiving the automatic mailing
list subscription
* DrewStreib notes that this also causes some confusion as to the election
of new board members this month? Which members list is authoritative?
<EanSchuessler> bdale: there was specific discussion around this.
<Overfiend> bdale: All Debian developers are eligible for contributing
membership, and sign up is fast and easy.
<Overfiend> bdale: I do not think there is any disenfranchisement going
on at all.
<EanSchuessler> Let's hold here for a second.
<Overfiend> bdale: what contrary perception do you have?>
<Overfiend> EanSchuessler: sorry
<EanSchuessler> bdale: This is, frankly, your decision.
<EanSchuessler> bdale: If you feel you have the authority to declare
such a thing then we can take action on it.
<bdale> EanSchuessler: I thought it was decided long ago, but apparently
no action was ever taken. [shrug]
<Kamion> oh yeah, orphaning shit ... somebody offered to take faqomatic,
I need to get round to jumping at that offer
<Diziet> I move: we resolve that Debian developers may become contributing
members, and vote in the election, if they choose (if this is not
already clear).
<Overfiend> EanSchuessler: true. If forcibly-memberized Debian Developers
howl at SPI for spam, we can just direct them to Bdale :)
<wiggy> Diziet: that is already true
<EanSchuessler> bdale: However, if you are making this decision as
Project Leader without a General Resolution then that is your decision.
<Diziet> bdale: will that satisfy you ?
<EanSchuessler> I don't know if you want to make that decision here
and now.
<bdale> Overfiend: the previous discussion was that we'd grant immediate
contributing member status, but not auto-subscribe them to lists.
<Overfiend> bdale: hmm, that does sound familiar
<Overfiend> I don't suppose anyone has a URL handy.
<Kamion> still need to find someone with any clue at all to take knews
<bdale> EanSchuessler: my interpretation was that no decision was needed,
since this grant of status was part of the intent with the original
formation of SPI.
<Kamion> (no, it's not KDE)
<Diziet> I think making people automatically members of something is a
very dodgy thing to do.
<Overfiend> with the 14 day amendment for the nomination period, though,
isn't there plenty of time to resolve this in email?
<eigood> Kamion: were you going to fix that date stuff? if so, I won't
bother fixing it for the new code, and will just copy yours.
* ibid would take it but for two things: 1) i don't use it 2) i don't
have the time
<DrewStreib> fwiw, this is why I wanted to see a membership list. :)
<Diziet> ov: Hence my motion.
<wiggy> bdale: can you instruct debian dsa to work with us in order to
get the necessary acount databases synced?
<ibid> knews sounds cool :-)
* Overfiend suppresses a rueful snicker. Almost.
<EanSchuessler> bdale: you and I see it that way but I clearly recall
some Debianers that DID NOT want to be part of SPI. Not that they
had any sensible reason for it.
<bdale> wiggy: I tried once, happy to try again.
<Kamion> ibid: I fulfil both those criteria too ;-)
<Rotty> ibid: gnus, too ;-)
<Diziet> What Ean said.
<wiggy> bdale: you'll have to succeed if you want debian developers to
vote in spi votes
<Kamion> eigood: hopefully yes, if I haven't got round to it in a day
or so then just go ahead
<bdale> EanSchuessler: my position was that they *were* contributing
members of SPI, and we just had a db sync problem.
<ibid> no, i've used gnus
<Overfiend> well, fine, get DSA to enable it
<ibid> if i had the time, i'd write my own news agent
<Overfiend> it takes two to do this
<Rotty> ibid: and didn't like it?
<Diziet> bd: I think you're mistaken.
<wiggy> we just need read access to's ldap setup including
pw hash
<ibid> Rotty: it's okay, good in some respects, bad in some others
<ibid> nothing fatal
<ibid> but also nothing extraordinarily good
<bdale> ok, I didn't mean to entirely derail the discussion, I just
wanted this considered in light of the questions of who is and is
not a voting member.
<Rotty> i like it because you can also read your mail with it...
<Diziet> This is all going to go hideously wrong if we get into a dire
political doom with some kooky Debian developers who think we're
taking away their freedom by making them members, in the middle of
our board elections !
<EanSchuessler> We have some other Debianers who would like to comment
on this situation.
<Overfiend> Diziet: that doesn't really matter. Let Bdale direct DSA to
do this; in the meantime we can try and fish out the decision that
and pull the trigger based on whether or not we find that.
<Kamion> I read very little news any more; when I do, it's on chiark
with trn (which is by far my preferred reader)
<Overfiend> for all I know, the resolution was in one of the sets of
minutes we never approved :-P :-P :-P
<ibid> news reading agent and mail user agent must not be combined
<wiggy> let ean hand out voice here
<EanSchuessler> ORDER
<EanSchuessler> (thanks wichert)
<eigood> what is so special about chiark?
*#* Mode change +v weasel on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<weasel> It's not necessarily a good thing to add all DDs as SPI-members.
<weasel> It can make getting valid votes harder:
<weasel> <bylaws> The quorum for a vote by the membership shall be set
at 35% of
<weasel> eligible voters
<weasel> so if we have lots of members that don't care about SPI
thats bad.
<weasel> thank you.
<EanSchuessler> noted
*#* Mode change -v weasel on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<Diziet> Please let us _not_ automatically do some kind of mass membership
thing. Some people get very upset _not because of mailing list subs_
but just because they think they're being dragooned into some kind
of conspiracy.
*#* Mode change +v CosmicRay on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<CosmicRay> I was going to say what weasel did; thanks.
<bdale> gah. a quorum of voting members? we definitely need a bylaws
<ifvoid> ibid: why not?
*#* Mode change -v CosmicRay on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<DrewStreib> automatic eligibility seems a lot more sane than automatic
<Kamion> mostly the user community, it goes back a long way
<Overfiend> bdale: a quorum of ELIGIBLE members
<Overfiend> that's usually how quorum is defined.
<Overfiend> same definition is operant in the Debian Constitution
<Diziet> I must go now, I'm afraid. I trust someone else will propose
my paragraph about veto vs approval of the bylaws committee procedures.
<EanSchuessler> Yes, I agree with Drew.
<wiggy> ok
<DrewStreib> especially when we're talking about a legal organization
<wiggy> so lets keep things just as they are
<ibid> ifvoid: confuses them
<ibid> ifvoid: they are separate media
<ifvoid> yeah, but similar media
<ibid> but not identical
<bdale> ok. never mind, then. I'll draft an announcement to d-d-a
reminding people of their right to join SPI as contributing members
and vote in the upcoming elections, and consider this issue closed.
<EanSchuessler> Bdale, if you're concerned about this then I think
you just need to put some encouraging words on debian-devel and get
Debianer's to go through the sign up process.
*#* Diziet is now known as Diz|away
<EanSchuessler> Yes, agreed.
<Overfiend> bdale: I think that's a good idea.
<EanSchuessler> Diziet: oh, let's just get this voted on quickly here.
<Overfiend> bdale: it should be up to the individual developer to exercise
this right or not
*#* wiggy has left channel #debian-devel
<Overfiend> hmm, my SPI Treasurer hat slipped off, there
<bdale> I can live with that. thanks for your attention.
* Overfiend staples it back to his head
<ifvoid> mailing list for example are more or less halfway in between
for example
<EanSchuessler> Or, wait, have we voted?
<EanSchuessler> No. We need to vote.
<EanSchuessler> Diziet: are you gone?
<ibid> yeah
* wiggy tries to lookup that veto vs approval thing
<Overfiend> if we lose Diziet, we lose quorum.
<Overfiend> we need Diziet for the bylaws vote
* EanSchuessler bangs his head with the gavel.
<EanSchuessler> Dammit. Do we still have quorum?
<ibid> mailing lists should be treated as newsgroups, but cannot be
<ibid> and therefore should not be :-)
<ifvoid> I would really like a decent client that could do mail and news
<Overfiend> if Diziet is gone, no.
<EanSchuessler> Not if he is abstaining.
<EanSchuessler> ...
<EanSchuessler> That's dicey.
<EanSchuessler> DAMN!
* EanSchuessler hops around.
* EanSchuessler kicks Diz|away
<Overfiend> Ean: wait, we have a contrary opinion.
<Overfiend> Please give cdlu voice.
*#* Mode change +v cdlu on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<cdlu> quorum rules don't specify that members have to stay for the
whole meeting, just that they have to show up
<cdlu> at least nothing I can find says they have to stay
<cdlu> thanks
<wiggy> righ, I was just rereading that
<cdlu> </cdlu>
<ifvoid> use mutt and slrn now
*#* Mode change -v cdlu on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<wiggy> it seems we can vote
<Overfiend> it's hair-splittling and lawyery, but I'm for it :)
<wiggy> (yay
<EanSchuessler> Sure. Yes. It just makes an otherwise uncontestable vote
somewhat contestable.
<wiggy> vote vote vote
<wiggy> vote vote vote
<DrewStreib> only if someone contests it. )
<EanSchuessler> And since this was the motion that Martin was vetoing
it makes it sticky.
<bdale> if more vote in favor than a majority of a quorum, having another
person here wouldn't change the outcome of the vote, anyway.
<Overfiend> what are we voting on, again?
* eigood kicks the client
<EanSchuessler> DrewStreib: you may count on that.
<thom> ifvoid: i gues gnus is a bit overkill?
<wiggy> Overfiend: Resolution 2003-01-06.wta.2
<Overfiend> bdale: that seems certain, only Joey opposed it
<Overfiend> Diziet says he dropped the amendment I objected to.
<eigood> acquired a company. when the new users were added to the system,
gave them their old payrollid. now, they have a real payrollid,
and it is different.
<Overfiend> If that is true, my vote is no problem.
<ifvoid> KILL EMACS
*#* Diz|away is now known as Diziet
<eigood> now I get to fix all the mess
<DrewStreib> yay
*#* Manoj (~user(at)12(dot)105(dot)243(dot)45) has joined channel #spi
<EanSchuessler> Hooray!
<EanSchuessler> Hooray!
<Overfiend> MANOJ!
<DrewStreib> double yay
<Diziet> OK very quickly you have two minutes
<BlindMan> ifvoid: kill word instead?
<Overfiend> except Manoj isn't up to speed :-/
<wiggy> Diziet: what was that veto thing you mentioned?
<wiggy> I couldn't find it
<Overfiend> let's vote anyway
<EanSchuessler> Manoj: we're voting to establish the bylaw committee.
<DrewStreib> don't need manoj on this if he wants to abstain
<eigood> ifvoid: telnet
<Diziet> I suggested changing a paragraph to
<Diziet> This committee shall operate openly in view of the public. The
<Diziet> committee itself shall determine reasonable procedures for
<Diziet> transacting its business, both for its operations and
<Diziet> (The board reserves the right to veto or modify those
<wiggy> Diziet: that's already in
<Diziet> in response to a suggestion from John Goerzen.
* Overfiend seconds that
<thom> mutt with fetchnews
<Kamion> nc $NNTPSERVER 119
<Diziet> Right, ok that's fine then.
<Overfiend> wiggy: is that in the version on the web?
<wiggy> Overfiend: yes
<Overfiend> ah, yes
<ibid> M-x kill-emacs RET
<Overfiend> sorry, didn't reload the page
<EanSchuessler> VOTE: Accept Resolution 2003-01-06.wta.2 with the
modifications discussed and agreed to in the log of this IRC session.
* Overfiend votes YES
* mihtjel pets his news-server =)
<Diziet> yes
* wiggy votes yes
* EanSchuessler votes YES
* DrewStreib votes in favor.
<Overfiend> Manoj:
<Overfiend> if you have time, which you may not
<eigood> apt-get install windows
<Diziet> Right, I'll go again now. Thanks.
*#* Diziet is now known as Diz|away
<EanSchuessler> Super. Thanks Ian.
<ifvoid> eigood: ok, you got me there. I'd rather kill windows than emacs
*#* Mode change -v bdale on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
* wiggy suspects manoj is a ghost
<EanSchuessler> Aha.
<EanSchuessler> Well, the motion carries anyway.
*#* Mode change +o Manoj on channel #spi by wiggy
<wiggy> lets give manoj a voice
<Manoj> I was reading the resolution ;-)
<Overfiend> Manoj is missing context anyway, if it were me I'd be nervous
about voting for it
<EanSchuessler> Ah..
<EanSchuessler> Well, then will wait a sec.
* Manoj votes in favour
<Manoj> I was reading the resolution ;-)
<Overfiend> Wiggy: the URL contains all "modifications discussed and
agreed to in the log of this IRC session.", right?
* wiggy pop the champagne
<Manoj> Hmm. I wonder if I have voice
<Overfiend> Manoj: yes
<Overfiend> we can hear you
<Overfiend> wiggy: ?
<Overfiend> Manoj needs to know for sure what he is voting on.
<wiggy> Overfiend: yes
<Overfiend> okay, good.
<EanSchuessler> Someone run down the agreed to modifications.
<BlindMan> err
<wiggy> theyu
<wiggy> they're all there
<Manoj> I read the web page at,
and I vote in favour of that resolution
<wiggy> this can finally really happen
* Overfiend is just proud that we're not like the horrendous
U.S. Congress, which passed the USA Patriot act when most of its
<BlindMan> did someone package multiple kernel patches with one package
and used dh-kpatches?
<BlindMan> and the kernel patches are seperate not unified
<EanSchuessler> The motion carries.
<EanSchuessler> Hooray!
<EanSchuessler> Next.
<Overfiend> EanSchuessler: I like how you use a different phrase each
time to say the same thing ;-)
*#* Signoff: Rotty (Quit: Bye)
<EanSchuessler> Overfiend: schizophrenia has its benefits.
<EanSchuessler> If no one objects I would like to table "Copyright
assignment (Martin Michlmayr)" to discussion on the list since we
are over our hour limit.
<EanSchuessler> Oops. hold on.
<Overfiend> yeah, I have no clue what that's about anyway
* Overfiend seconds what Ean just said
<EanSchuessler> Should we assign someone to chair the by-law committee?
*#* gcc[a] (~gcc(at)gcc(dot)oper(dot)oftc(dot)net) has joined channel #spi
* wiggy seconds
<wiggy> EanSchuessler: we can do that offline please
<Overfiend> Ean: probably best to do it here
<Overfiend> I disagree
<Overfiend> we don't want another contrarian veto
* Overfiend coughs "Joey"
<EanSchuessler> Agreed.
<EanSchuessler> Manoj: How busy are you these days. :)
<Overfiend> heh
<Manoj> we need to get that stupid veto rule off the by laws
<Overfiend> Manoj: they're not IN the by-laws
<EanSchuessler> Manoj: this is your big chance.
<Overfiend> just the email voting resolution
<Manoj> EanSchuessler: well, my kitchen is going to be removed, and a
new one put in, in the next month
<EanSchuessler> Manoj: Yipes.
<Overfiend> Manoj: less time to eat, more time to do SPI work ;-)
* Overfiend suggests that David Graham and John Goerzen as potential
committee chairs
<EanSchuessler> cdlu notes that we could elect a temporary chair who
builds the committee.
<Overfiend> s/that //
<Manoj> Overfiend: you forget what contractors do to expenses and quality
of work wehen no one is around to suprvise
<EanSchuessler> yes.
<Overfiend> David Graham == cdlu, John Goerzen == CosmicRay
<EanSchuessler> Do we have a volenteer for a temporary chair?
<Overfiend> Manoj: I was kidding. I know what a headache it is.
<Overfiend> EanSchuessler: uh, better unmoderate the channel
<Overfiend> they have no voices
<EanSchuessler> Hydroxide would like the flow.
*#* two-face (~jerome(at)jmarant(dot)net1(dot)nerim(dot)net) has joined channel
<two-face> hi
*#* Mode change +v Hydroxide on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<EanSchuessler> floor...
<Hydroxide> I'm willing to serve on the bylaws committee, either as
chair or as a regular member.
<Hydroxide> I do have a sufficiently legalistic mind, I'd like to think
:-) </end>
*#* Joy (joy(at)pork(dot)gkvk(dot)hr) has joined channel #debian-devel
*#* Joy (joy(at)pork(dot)gkvk(dot)hr) has joined channel #spi
<EanSchuessler> Super. Thanks.
*#* Mode change -v Hydroxide on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
* Overfiend suggests that anyone else seeking this position nag Ean now
for a voice
<EanSchuessler> Manoj: Would you have time to build the committee and
then hand it off?
<Overfiend> No! He'll fill it with Raul Millers!
*#* Mode change +v CosmicRay on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<Overfiend> (sorry) :)
<CosmicRay> I also seek the position. I am quite interested in reforming
the system, ridding it of the current problems.
<EanSchuessler> Sorry to focus on Manoj, but I'm familiar with his
Debian-Policy work.
<Manoj> EanSchuessler: I may, if we can wait until I get home
<CosmicRay> My mind is sufficiently paranoid for the task :-)
<CosmicRay> thanks, done
<EanSchuessler> Thanks John.
<Manoj> but I have full confidence in cosmicray
<Overfiend> EanSchuessler: oh, I was just kidding. I think Manoj would
make a great chair, temporary or permanent.
*#* Mode change -v CosmicRay on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<EanSchuessler> I'm also familiar with CosmicRay.
<Overfiend> me too
<EanSchuessler> Ok.
*#* Mode change +v CosmicRay on channel #spi by EanSchuessler
<Manoj> I would be happy to be co-chair
<EanSchuessler> CosmicRay: What do you think. You have the time then?
<CosmicRay> I do, and I would be pleased to lead this effort.
<Manoj> I can also run the votes, seeing that the same mechanism as is
used for Debian votes
<wiggy> Manoj: not quite the same
<EanSchuessler> wiggy: do we need a vote on this one?
<Overfiend> Ean: that would be tricky
<wiggy> EanSchuessler: no
<Overfiend> fairest way would be Condorcet
<EanSchuessler> Super.
<Overfiend> I suggest Ean just nominate a person
<EanSchuessler> Hey, watch this.
<Overfiend> and woe betide anyone who objects
<Manoj> wiggy: close enough (given the new flexibility of the vote taking
mechanism) I would think
<Overfiend> now watch him nominate doogie :-P
<DrewStreib> lets see if we can get a no-contest from board members. would
simplify things if we didn't need a vote.
<Overfiend> Drew: yeah, that's what I was trying to say
<wiggy> Manoj: lets talk about that later
* EanSchuessler points the magic vice president wand at CosmicRay and says
"poof! you chair the bylaw committee".
<EanSchuessler> Great. Done.
<wiggy> EanSchuessler: please nominate someone
<wiggy> excellent
* Overfiend seconds that, doesn't object, and whatever else needs to be
done to register concurrence
<EanSchuessler> Eh?
<CosmicRay> wow, that stung :-)
<Manoj> cool
<DrewStreib> no objections here
* wiggy seconds
<Manoj> second
<wiggy> we seem to have a winner
<DrewStreib> shall we poof a couple members on it as well?
<CosmicRay> that would be good
<Overfiend> by unanimous consent. The honor is now CosmicRay's to
<Overfiend> :)
<EanSchuessler> Yes, agreed.
<wiggy> who will be the board member on board? manoj?
<Manoj> I would be happy to be on board
<Overfiend> if Manoj is unwilling to serve,
<Overfiend> never mind
<EanSchuessler> Awesome.
<DrewStreib> i second manoj, and don't object, etc.
<EanSchuessler> Seconded.
* Overfiend seconds that
* wiggy seconds
<EanSchuessler> Great.
<EanSchuessler> Now, back to copyrights.
*?* No matches for dEa.
*?* E is ambiguous. Potential matches:
*?* EanSchuessler ElectricElf
<EanSchuessler> Did we get some seconds on tabling that to email?
<DrewStreib> i'll second tabling it
<wiggy> we all seconded that
<EanSchuessler> I do to, if I didn't propose it.
<EanSchuessler> Great. Tabled.
<DrewStreib> also, should we poof hydroxide to cmte now? do we need to?
<CosmicRay> can I add something quick about the bylaws cmte?
* Manoj is confused whther it is the british sense of tabling it or the
american, since they are diametrically opposite
<Overfiend> s/tabled/shelved/ see earlier resolutions
<Overfiend> what Manoj said
<Overfiend> we should say shelved, as those Brits are ass-backwards
about it
<EanSchuessler> CosmicRay can do it at his leisure.
<EanSchuessler> Manoj: yes, we should get that straight.
<CosmicRay> I'd like the board (or someone) to consider whether to
create a mailing list or two (one public, one for cmte people only)
for discussion
<wiggy> next meeting?
<ibid> what's the british tabling (re #spi)?
<CosmicRay> that's it.
<wiggy> CosmicRay: please ask admin(at)spi-inc(dot)org
<Overfiend> CR: put the request in email
<CosmicRay> will do, thanks.
<Overfiend> what wiggy said
<wiggy> ie joy and me
<CosmicRay> didn't know whom to ask
*#* egagnon has left channel #debian-devel (Client Exiting)
<EanSchuessler> Right... It's Miller time fellas (and fellettes).
<wiggy> don't forget the date for the next meeting
<EanSchuessler> Your next official SPI meeting will be at Feb 4,
19.00 UTC.
<Overfiend> we should revise the standing resolution
<Overfiend> since it says 20.00 UTC, IIRC
<wiggy> no, it says 20.00
<DrewStreib> i'll change my crontab to say 1900 then
<wiggy> it says 19.00 (doh)
<Overfiend> oh
<wiggy> I typoed that last meeting
<EanSchuessler> All done?
<Overfiend> damnit, 1900 UTC is always 1900 UTC, who screwed us by
saying 2000?
<Overfiend> Daylight Savings Freaks.
<wiggy> all done
<Overfiend> EanSchuessler: I have no more business for the Board.
<Manoj> so far, by all that is wonderfull, I am not scheduled to be
yanked away then
<EanSchuessler> Then by the power vested in me by Richard Stallman's
beard I hereby close this official SPI meeting. May God have mercy
on your code.
*#* Mode change -m on channel #spi by wiggy
* EanSchuessler crosses himself.
<weasel> Amen.
<dieman> heh
<brother> Can anyone (tbm?) shortly explain what the Copyright Assignments
is all about?
* cdlu volunteers for By-law committee
<Overfiend> Ean: I'd rather bad coders were sent bodily to Hell, without
mercy, personally..
<cdlu> oh
*#* Joy is now known as GeorgeBush
<eigood> Kamion: Time::Duration looks simple
*#* Mode change -ooo Diz|away Overfiend EanSchuessler on channel #spi
by wiggy
*#* Mode change -ooo Manoj Schuessi DrewStreib on channel #spi by wiggy
<GeorgeBush> Thank you, God bless you...
<cdlu> wiggy: can you explain the voting system you're planning to
use please?
* dieman isn't pedantic enough for a by-law committee.
*#* GeorgeBush is now known as Joy
<brother> ...someone...
* cdlu doesn't know quite how Condorcet works
IRC log ended Tue Jan 07 16:29:01 2003

G. Branden Robinson, Treasurer
Software in the Public Interest, Inc.

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