Re: [Spi-private] Publically viewable resolutions and increasing the visibility of board activity

From: MJ Ray <mjr(at)phonecoop(dot)coop>
To: spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org, neilm(at)spi-inc(dot)org
Subject: Re: [Spi-private] Publically viewable resolutions and increasing the visibility of board activity
Date: 2007-01-03 13:31:33
Views: Raw Message | Whole Thread | Download mbox
Lists: spi-general

Neil McGovern <neilm(at)spi-inc(dot)org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 02:37:00AM +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
> > Neil McGovern <neilm(at)spi-inc(dot)org> wrote:
> > > Taken from the by-laws:
> > > "If the board decides not to consider an issue, the membership may
> > > vote on the resolution."
> > >
> > > Now, for a vote, I need a proposal, which brings in:
> >
> > You already have a proposal to the board, else there would not be a
> > resolution on their slate.
> A resolution is fairly distinct for a proposal for a vote, IMO anyway.

Indeed. So we should not apply the seconding requirements for a
proposal to a resolution the board has decided not to consider.

The board's three choices on each issue under consideration are
essentially yes/no/refuse-to-consider in some manner and style, where
refuse-to-consider allows the membership to vote.

> > The board could vote to reject blocks of DoS-attempt proposals, which
> > would mean they don't ever reach the membership. In short, unless the
> > board is stupid and refuses to consider the DoS-attempt proposals,
> > there is no DoS: just a bit of saving/uploading emails and one extra
> > vote each meeting.
> There is a DoS, you're just moving it's target. If it was implemented as
> above, I could send 200 emails to the board every month, and they would
> need to be voted on.

Then the board votes once to reject all 200 email proposals. The
board can compress many-to-one, so it's not a very good DoS attack.

> > > * resolutions must now be sent at least 48h in advance.
> > > - Previously it's been 24h. Before I was secretary, it was none.
> >
> > 1. it lengthens a no-proposals-allowed period before the meeting
> > again. This deadline is new this year and is unwelcome.
> MJ, you suggested 48h yourself above.

When? I took 48h from the proposal and rewrote it as a guaranteed
service for things arriving 48h ahead and discretionary postponement
for things arriving later. I do not support a hard 48h cut-off.

> The aim of this is to allow:
> a) sufficient time for the membership to comment on a proposal.
> b) allow the membership to look at the agenda with enough time to see if
> they want to attend a board meeting.

That aim would be satisified by issuing the agenda notice earlier.
Imposing a deadline on member participation does not meet it.

The board can always postpone detailed decisions for more
information/discussion, as they have been doing repeatedly on some
proposals. (I really don't understand how the domain vote got
polluted by a 'should decide it once-and-for-all' meme.)

> Of course, if people think that there *shoudn't* be a time limit, I can
> remove it, but then I seem to get complaints that there wasn't enough
> notice.

There should not be a time limit. It is not necessary for issuing
notices. Please do not link issuing notices and member participation.

> > > * Resolutions must now also be sent to a spi list.
> >
> > 2. it makes it beneficial to DoS the lists (and the secretary) by
> > fraudulently claiming things are proposals, trying to lose the
> > real things in the noise.
> I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Could you give an example with
> the previous ways of doing things, and the new one?

Current way: secretary receives proposals, refers things to lists as
appropriate. Only proposals passed to lists by the secretary are
necessarily real, which makes them pretty easy to spot.

Proposed way: proposers sends proposals to lists, but only those also sent
to the secretary are really proposals. The rest are just noise.

> > Instead of yet more red tape for members,
> I don't see this as extra red tape.

These are new, increasingly-complex policies for things that were
fairly informal before. If it ties members up like red tape, it's red

> > more notice of meetings (including business) and conducting more
> > board discussions in public
> Erm... how can I post notice of meetings with business without a
> timelimit on when resolutions should be submitted by?

Please see my previous message explaining wider participation items.
Please don't link notice periods and participation deadlines.

> One of the points (as I pointed out above, but you snipped) of the "send
> to a list" idea above is that this ensures that board discussions happen
> in public.

It encourages resolutions to be posted to a public list, but how does
it ensure that board discussions happen in public?

> On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 04:22:56AM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > I suggest changing this to resolutions must be submitted 24 hours in
> > advance of the publication of the meeting announcement which must
> > occur at least 4 days before the meeting and include the full text of
> > the resolutions to be decided at the meeting as well as the schedule
> > of the meeting.[1]
> >
> > Resolutions which do not meet the deadline would be automatically
> > defered to the next meeting. [I suppose exceptions could be made for
> > emergency resolutions, but those should be few and far between, and
> > should probably require a non-regularly scheduled meeting to be called
> > anyway.]
> >
> This seems sensible to me.
> Any comments?

The automatic deferral is superior to the dropping-on-the-floor.

It is unnecessary to link member participation deadlines with meeting
notice periods.

Hope that explains,
MJ Ray - see/vidu
Somerset, England. Work/Laborejo:
IRC/Jabber/SIP: on request/peteble.


Browse spi-general by date

  From Date Subject
Next Message Neil McGovern 2007-01-03 13:58:20 Re: [Spi-private] Publically viewable resolutions and increasing the visibility of board activity
Previous Message MJ Ray 2007-01-03 13:07:33 Re: [Spi-private] Publically viewable resolutions and increasing the visibility of board activity