Re: associated projects selling training material

Hi there

I'm the liason of the YafaRay project. Our project is rather small although we have a relatively broad user base.
We are doing about 7.000 downloads a month.

However, the fact is that donations does not work for us. it is more dificult for desktop software to get support from the big guys.

This is not a big issue for a project with small needs, but our project faces now critical times and we would like to organise a first "code sprint" to get together and strengthen
our bonds.

Selling training material would be an option for us. We are not sure whether is going to work but at least we would like to try.

We would like to ask whether we can still use SPI protection for the money raised by those sales and how to accommodate a checkout process
from an e-shop within the current "click & pledge" framework. I don't believe it can be done.

For instance, can we use Amazon Payments or Paypal under our responsabily but draw funds from those and get them directly to our SPI account?

Thank you for your comments on these regards. Greetings

Alvaro

[Dropping -board from the Cc]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 09:57:03AM +0000, Alvaro Luna Bautista wrote:
> For instance, can we use Amazon Payments or Paypal under our responsabily but draw funds from those and get them directly to our SPI account?

Are you asking if you can, as individuals, sell things, pay the relevant
taxes, and then donate the money to SPI?

I see what you mean about getting to sell products without being a legal entity on our own
The question then would be: would SPI sponsor such activities?

Regards

________________________________
De: Clint Adams <clint(at)debian(dot)org>
Para: Alvaro Luna Bautista <alvarolunab(at)yahoo(dot)es>; "spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org" <spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org>
Enviado: martes 20 de diciembre de 2011 17:40
Asunto: Re: associated projects selling training material

[Dropping -board from the Cc]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 09:57:03AM +0000, Alvaro Luna Bautista wrote:
> For instance, can we use Amazon Payments or Paypal under our responsabily but draw funds from those and get them directly to our SPI account?

Are you asking if you can, as individuals, sell things, pay the relevant
taxes, and then donate the money to SPI?

Hi Alvaro,

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 09:57:03AM +0000, Alvaro Luna Bautista wrote:
> However, the fact is that donations does not work for us. it is more dificult
> for desktop software to get support from the big guys.
[...]
> Selling training material would be an option for us. We are not sure whether
> is going to work but at least we would like to try.

Contrary to some assumptions people make, I don't think it would jeopardise our
tax status to sell YafaRay training materials. It's educational and can clearly
fall within SPI's approved exempt purposes. Many US nonprofits with the same
status do sell products, including the Free Software Foundation. We may,
however, have to do things like collect and remit sales tax at least for buyers
in certain US states where we have sufficient ties.

We should consult our already-very-busy lawyers to learn what we'd need to do,
but there is probably a way it could be arranged if the requirements don't make
excessive demands on our limited manpower, or if more volunteers arose to
handle some of the increased workload (hint hint).

SPI does not directly use PayPal due to various concerns, but it's possible one
of our merchant accounts could be leveraged for processing sales without us
needing to handle credit card data directly. Michael as treasurer would have
the best thoughts on the mechanics of that.

- Jimmy Kaplowitz
jimmy(at)spi-inc(dot)org

Thanks for your answer.

A good example of what you say is the Blender Foundation, that sells training material at
http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/

Most if not all the training material included on the Blender DVDs and books are released under a copyleft CC license and with no DRM controls.

We aim for the very same model; the material would be released under a CC license and people would get sth. in return of their monetary support.
Our first training material would be a selection of very good scenes rendered with our render engine, with tutorials and making-off stuff.

Shoul I formally add my proposal to a board meeting agenda? how? What should I do to give our proposal some traction apart from posting on the mailing lists?
Thank you for your help

________________________________
De: Jimmy Kaplowitz <jimmy(at)spi-inc(dot)org>
Para: Alvaro Luna Bautista <alvarolunab(at)yahoo(dot)es>
CC: "spi-board(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org" <spi-board(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org>; "spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org" <spi-general(at)lists(dot)spi-inc(dot)org>
Enviado: martes 20 de diciembre de 2011 21:25
Asunto: Re: associated projects selling training material

Hi Alvaro,

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 09:57:03AM +0000, Alvaro Luna Bautista wrote:
> However, the fact is that donations does not work for us. it is more dificult
> for desktop software to get support from the big guys.
[...]
> Selling training material would be an option for us. We are not sure whether
> is going to work but at least we would like to try.

Contrary to some assumptions people make, I don't think it would jeopardise our
tax status to sell YafaRay training materials. It's educational and can clearly
fall within SPI's approved exempt purposes. Many US nonprofits with the same
status do sell products, including the Free Software Foundation. We may,
however, have to do things like collect and remit sales tax at least for buyers
in certain US states
where we have sufficient ties.

We should consult our already-very-busy lawyers to learn what we'd need to do,
but there is probably a way it could be arranged if the requirements don't make
excessive demands on our limited manpower, or if more volunteers arose to
handle some of the increased workload (hint hint).

SPI does not directly use PayPal due to various concerns, but it's possible one
of our merchant accounts could be leveraged for processing sales without us
needing to handle credit card data directly. Michael as treasurer would have
the best thoughts on the mechanics of that.

- Jimmy Kaplowitz
jimmy(at)spi-inc(dot)org

On Thu, 22 Dec 2011, Alvaro Luna Bautista wrote:

> Shoul I formally add my proposal to a board meeting agenda? how? What
> should I do to give our proposal some traction apart from posting on the
> mailing lists? Thank you for your help

I think Jimmy made a persuasive argument that what your proposing is
feasible for SPI.

I'd like us to ask counsel to provide an opinion, as part of due
diligence.

Once counsel has offered an opinion then we could assess whether a
proposal should be submitted.

Cheers,

Rob

--
Director, Software in the Public Interest, Inc.
Email: robert(at)spi-inc(dot)org Linux counter ID #16440
IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode)
Web: http://www.spi-inc.org
Free and Open Source: The revolution that quietly changed the world