Re: Make SPI book keeping more transparent?

Hi,

during todays monthly board meeting, we were talking about book keeping.
One of the topics that i came up with (after the meeting), is to make
the book keeping more 'transparent' and to show to associated projects
that we are processing their financial requests in a correct way.

One way to do that could be to do an anual audit of SPI's financial
records by someone who is not involved in SPI's financial process. My
idea of that process is as follows, but i think we should discuss that:

During the AGM a contributing member not being part of board is assigned
to do the audit. During the now following year she/he will be able to
request copies of the book records, which the treasurer will provide in
a timely manner. During the now following AGM this contributing member
reports back that she/he thinks that the books are okay (or not).

What i describe here is a usual process for nonprofit association in
Germany. The audit report is a basis for decisions the General Assembly.
The treasurer and the entire board of the association are to be
relieved. This report protects the treasurer (and the board) against
claims for compensation (unless the treasurer fooled the auditor).

I am open for suggestions,

Martin
--
Martin Zobel-Helas <zobel(at)spi-inc(dot)org>
Software in the Public Interest, Inc. | Member of the Board of Directors
GPG Fingerprint: 6B18 5642 8E41 EC89 3D5D BDBB 53B1 AC6D B11B 627B

Hi,

On Thu May 14, 2015 at 22:02:18 +0000, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> during todays monthly board meeting, we were talking about book keeping.
> One of the topics that i came up with (after the meeting), is to make
> the book keeping more 'transparent' and to show to associated projects
> that we are processing their financial requests in a correct way.
>
> One way to do that could be to do an anual audit of SPI's financial
> records by someone who is not involved in SPI's financial process. My
> idea of that process is as follows, but i think we should discuss that:
>
> During the AGM a contributing member not being part of board is assigned
> to do the audit. During the now following year she/he will be able to
> request copies of the book records, which the treasurer will provide in
> a timely manner. During the now following AGM this contributing member
> reports back that she/he thinks that the books are okay (or not).
>
> What i describe here is a usual process for nonprofit association in
> Germany. The audit report is a basis for decisions the General Assembly.
> The treasurer and the entire board of the association are to be
> relieved. This report protects the treasurer (and the board) against
> claims for compensation (unless the treasurer fooled the auditor).
>

Is this really a non-issue, or why did i not received any feedback on
the general mailing list?

Cheers,
Martin
--
Martin Zobel-Helas <zobel(at)spi-inc(dot)org>
Software in the Public Interest, Inc. | Member of the Board of Directors
GPG Fingerprint: 6B18 5642 8E41 EC89 3D5D BDBB 53B1 AC6D B11B 627B

On 06/11/2015 12:51 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
claims for compensation (unless the treasurer fooled the auditor).
>>
>
> Is this really a non-issue, or why did i not received any feedback on
> the general mailing list?

I find it a non-issue as the books accounts are publicly disclosed
monthly and we have a CPA/Book Keeper.

JD

>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>

--
Command Prompt, Inc. - http://www.commandprompt.com/ 503-667-4564
PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Announcing "I'm offended" is basically telling the world you can't
control your own emotions, so everyone else should do it for you.

Hi,

On Thu Jun 11, 2015 at 13:19:11 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> On 06/11/2015 12:51 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> claims for compensation (unless the treasurer fooled the auditor).
> >>
> >
> >Is this really a non-issue, or why did i not received any feedback on
> >the general mailing list?
>
> I find it a non-issue as the books accounts are publicly disclosed
> monthly and we have a CPA/Book Keeper.

Ok. I would just like to avoid, that we are suprisingly 'hit' by a
authority financial audit and are not prepared for that or find out
disagreement only then.

Cheers,
Martin
--
Martin Zobel-Helas <zobel(at)spi-inc(dot)org>
Software in the Public Interest, Inc. | Member of the Board of Directors
GPG Fingerprint: 6B18 5642 8E41 EC89 3D5D BDBB 53B1 AC6D B11B 627B

On 06/11/2015 02:10 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu Jun 11, 2015 at 13:19:11 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>
>> On 06/11/2015 12:51 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
>> claims for compensation (unless the treasurer fooled the auditor).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is this really a non-issue, or why did i not received any feedback on
>>> the general mailing list?
>>
>> I find it a non-issue as the books accounts are publicly disclosed
>> monthly and we have a CPA/Book Keeper.
>
> Ok. I would just like to avoid, that we are suprisingly 'hit' by a
> authority financial audit and are not prepared for that or find out
> disagreement only then.

I will note that we no longer have an assistant bookkeeper (as far as I
know). Having a 2nd person who had oversight of all financial
transactions was helpful; SPI should look for a new volunteer for this.

On 06/11/2015 02:10 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thu Jun 11, 2015 at 13:19:11 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>
>> On 06/11/2015 12:51 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
>> claims for compensation (unless the treasurer fooled the auditor).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is this really a non-issue, or why did i not received any feedback on
>>> the general mailing list?
>>
>> I find it a non-issue as the books accounts are publicly disclosed
>> monthly and we have a CPA/Book Keeper.
>
> Ok. I would just like to avoid, that we are suprisingly 'hit' by a
> authority financial audit and are not prepared for that or find out
> disagreement only then.

No doubt.

JD

>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>

--
Command Prompt, Inc. - http://www.commandprompt.com/ 503-667-4564
PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Announcing "I'm offended" is basically telling the world you can't
control your own emotions, so everyone else should do it for you.

Josh Berkus <josh(at)postgresql(dot)org> writes:

> On 06/11/2015 02:10 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> > Ok. I would just like to avoid, that we are suprisingly 'hit' by a
> > authority financial audit and are not prepared for that or find out
> > disagreement only then.
>
> I will note that we no longer have an assistant bookkeeper (as far as
> I know). Having a 2nd person who had oversight of all financial
> transactions was helpful; SPI should look for a new volunteer for
> this.

If this is still needed, I would like to offer myself for this.

I have some knowledge of double-entry book-keeping, though I am neither
trained in it nor much experienced. Will that disqualify me for the
role?

More generally, is there a description I can access of what the role of
assistant book-keeper for SPI would entail?

--
\ “We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the |
`\ sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his |
_o__) wife is beautiful and his children smart.” —Henry L. Mencken |
Ben Finney

On 6/11/15 5:10 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu Jun 11, 2015 at 13:19:11 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>
>> On 06/11/2015 12:51 PM, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
>> claims for compensation (unless the treasurer fooled the auditor).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is this really a non-issue, or why did i not received any feedback on
>>> the general mailing list?
>>
>> I find it a non-issue as the books accounts are publicly disclosed
>> monthly and we have a CPA/Book Keeper.
>
> Ok. I would just like to avoid, that we are suprisingly 'hit' by a
> authority financial audit and are not prepared for that or find out
> disagreement only then.

This idea of having auditors from among the membership might be a
European tradition. I have seen it in several associations there. But
it's usually for smaller associations that don't use professional
bookkeeping or publish continuous accounts, as a way for the general
membership to validate the work of the executive committee.

Since SPI uses professional bookkeeping and publishes monthly reports,
and the tax authorities are happy with that, it's probably not necessary
to add an additional auditing method.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 11:52:55PM -0400, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> This idea of having auditors from among the membership might be a
> European tradition. I have seen it in several associations there. But
> it's usually for smaller associations that don't use professional
> bookkeeping or publish continuous accounts, as a way for the general
> membership to validate the work of the executive committee.

An association under Finnish law is required to submit continuously to either
professional auditing or lay auditing (the latter not available to big
associations). This is unrelated to whether the association handles books
through voluntary labor or buys professional accounting services.

The purpose of the audit is to verify that the association's executive committee
follows both the law and the association's bylaws; the auditor has unlimited
access to everything the association does and to all of its records (even those
that are normally kept secret from the membership). I have myself served as a
lay auditor for several small and mid-size associations over many years.

But then again, an association under Finnish law would always have at least two
governing bodies: a general assembly (or a council of deputies in case of a
very large association, selected by a general assembly or by postal election
among the membership) which lays down general principles, approves the budget,
receives the yearly audit report (and based on that decides whether to absolve
the executive of civil liability to the association for past actions), and
elects the executive committee; and then the executive committee which oversees
the administration of the association.

It was, quite frankly, a shock to learn how SPI was set up when I first joined
back in the previous millennium. It has gotten better since.
I am not going to propose any changes at this time. (Frankly, I haven't yet
decided whether to resign or not, since I no longer am a DD.)

--
Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho